I'm an Adventist because

By Alexander Carpenter

Why are you an Adventist?

Comments

[Raymond Roccograndi]

Firstly, from a visual standpoint this film is poorly edited; rooming with a film major I couldn’t help but think about the poor quality and editing. Secondly, I can't find the nexus between being an Adventist and "loving Jesus."

I proclaim love for Jesus and follow Him as a Christian, not as an Adventist. Adventism is a denomination, not a faith - the faith is Christianity. Adventism is that particular understanding of Christianity, but not a religion unto itself. Therefore I'm never an Adventist solely, but always an Adventist Christian. Because my faith is in the philosophies and teachings of Christianity although being a Christian my faith community is within the Seventh-day Adventist Church. This is an important distinction and not solely a point of semantics.

[Dick Larsen]

Maybe there is just too much being said, too many words, too much noise (oh wait, that's me I'm hearing).

The "From The President" page in the Nov. Mid-American Outlook Mag. is about freedom. (Well it's about freedom and how it's good but sometimes we're bad for wanting it but let's all proclaim it.) In it there is the statement, "God commissioned our Pioneers to demonstrate to the world the liberating power of truth as it is in Jesus." Nice statement but it is like just one more political sound byte. What does it mean? How does it translate? Later the president asks for a "predisposition of cooperation". I don't know what that means.

As stated above "I'm and Adventist because I love Jesus" doesn't make sense to me. I don't even know what the phrase "I love Jesus" means most of the time.

To answer the statement I’m an Adventist for me would be because of heritage. That and they haven't quite asked me to leave yet. I do see a lot of potential for SDAm to be relevant to the world today but the resistance and fear of change is overpowering.

I do appreciate soul sleep, non eternal hell fire and torment and the idea of a Sabbath ceasing.

[David R. Larson]

I'm an Adventist by chance and choice. On the one hand, I would not have been conceived had my parents not met at Walla Walla College. On the other hand, I find enough of an inviting mix of believing, behaving and belonging--to use the language of Richard Rice's book--to stay.

[Daneen Akers]

I think a lot of us are in the same boat with you David--chance and choice (and for me the choice wasn't/isn't always clear). Finding clarity in the balance of believing, behaving and belonging can be hard.

This video sure smacks of poorly produced propaganda though. I'm certainly not one to think that Adventism is superior to other denominations, but it sure seems like the "because I love Jesus" line is a very thin distinction. Don't we all? Even many of other faiths love and respect Jesus.

However, it seems that line is just what the filmmakers felt they needed to add to make it palatable--in reality, the vast majority of the folks in the clip said they were Adventist because they were born into the church.

[David Hamstra]

Does anyone know the background of this video? It looks to me like it was made at an event like GYC or the recent NAD youth rally.

I've been an Adventist for a lot of reasons. Ask me a few years from now and you might get a different answer. Right now I'm an Adventist because of the way this church has been willing to radically adjust its teachings to bring them in line with what it has found in the Bible. That's a tradition I think is not emphasized enough.

[Pat Travis]

I am an Adventist due to my heritage. I remain an Adventist because I recognize there is no perfect church because people, including myself, are part of it.

I appreciate our traditional continuity of the Bible from "Eden to Eden." My continued hope is to see the church one day emphasize the Gospel of the finished work of Christ on the Cross.(Justification by Faith Alone)

The Lord Justifies no one whom he patiently does not begin to make holy. That must include growth in attitude and deeds of love towards God and our fellowman that spring from experiencing the knowledge of His acceptance of us while we are yet sinners. (Heb.10:14)

I live in today but I hope to see the day that we may ultimately be able to shed our 1844 "doctrine" as taught and begin to recognize that "Babylon--The world wide social,economic,political, religious system" of the 'end time' is the primary emphasis of what is to be judged and not His people whom He will deliver and take back to the "New Jerusalem."

pt

[Alexander]

Good eye, David. I found the video on YouTube and I believe it is part of a GYC promo.

Interestingly, General Youth Conference has changed its name to the unwieldy Generation of Youth for Christ.

I just returned from a conference in which fifteen seminarians hung out with the top fifteen progressive Christian leaders in America.

As I heard once again, two of the biggest ideas in Christianity right now are -- Sabbath economics and Prophetic witness.

What I find especially troubling right now is that mainstream Adventist leaders are encouraging their flock to smile into the camera, and emotionally slap themselves on the back for "loving Jesus" as the rest of Christianity gets serious once again about translating our beliefs into serious ethical action.

I don't love Jesus. I do love His teachings and His salvific actions and I want to love the least like He did.

I wonder if it is possible for Adventist leaders to stop trying to arrange these relationships with Jesus and start telling people to be Jesus in their relationships with others.

[Johnny A. Ramirez]

Alexander I agree- We _are_ failing them if their lives, and how they relate to their fellow humanity and creation, are not radically transformed because of this personal relationship with a Jesus they love.

I think this pursuit is not an abstracted belief bought into and would also cite Richard Rice as Larson had in describing why I'm an Adventist.

... and echoing Raymond our ecclesiastical structures and community or our "church" is not what you accept when you're baptized. It is Christ whom you accept as you're baptized into a community of faith.

Our title hints at our distinctives, yes. However we don't follow the Advent or the Sabbath, we follow Christ.
Thanks!!

[Dr. Thomas J. Zwemer]

Someone answered the blog: “Why I am a Seventh-day Adventist with “because I love Jesus”.

Not much room for debate but plenty for speculation. There are 28 Fundamental Beliefs protected and proclaimed by Seventh-day Adventists.

Those unique to the “faith” require the “love and fidelity of a beloved servant” Not those of an adopted son or daughter. The parable of the two lost sons comes to mind. The elder was the faithful servant—with deep feelings that he was entitled to his “due”. The younger had nothing to offer except his need.

In an early blog, possibly in a different thread, someone defined exegesis as reading scripture through one’s own world view: rather than attempting to learn what God has to say through frail imperfect human instruments. The correct word for that definition is eisegesis—putting one’s spin on God’s word.

The SDA distinctives are an attempt to justify a failed eisegesis by creating a more complex and convoluted eisegesis. Not built upon love but upon self-justification—a servant’s view of paradise.

The better proposition would have been: “Why I am a Christian” or still better: “Why in the world does Jesus love Me?”

Seventh-day Adventism does nothing to advance the Gospel. It does a lot to promote ethical behavior and self-control included but not limited to a healthy life style. Fortunately, a few sainted souls have found a Savior as well as an ethic and an ethos. May their tribe increase. Tom

[Monique Viljoen-Platts]

A very interesting video clip and discussion.

I frequently ask myself why I am an Adventist, or more accurately "am I still an Adventist?" So I am always interested in how other Adventists answer this question, because I certainly have not found my answer yet.

I was glad to hear from this clip that so many Adventists "love Jesus" (although I am also quite unclear on what that means) but I also cannot figure out why that makes one an SDA (as opposed to a Christian). Perhaps it was meant to be self evident and I am just too obtuse to see it.

I liked Dick's answer that the SDA church hasn't asked him to leave yet :)! Although on a sadder note I sometimes do feel that my church is asking me in so many unspoken ways to please kindly disappear or to at least to keep just a little bit quieter. But maybe that is an unfair comment as I also find many people in the denomination who I can talk to and who are able to talk back to me.

So I end up saying answering I am a Christian who happens to be an SDA. I believe that there is only the "One Holy Universal Church" of which the SDA church is a fragment.

I suppose I am a Christian because I am endlessly fascinated by the story of Jesus. I do not claim to love Jesus because I do not know how to, but I do believe that God SO LOVED the WHOLE world (and therefore also me) and was so intent on being with us that He sent his only Son! That is pretty amazing and I do not expect that I will cease to ponder this mystery either in this life or the life to come!

[Molete]

I'm adventist bcoz I repented from my sins and love to proclaim the obedience and Salvation throuhg faith by grace and live with expectation of seeing Lord of lords comming to take the remnant home.

[Sean]

I'm a Christian because the love of God has drawn me to Christ. I'm an Adventist because I believe the substance of what the church holds as biblical truth. If I didn't, I'd find somewhere else to fellowship and worship.

[Daneen Akers]

Monique--I just wanted to say how much I appreciated your comment. I felt myself nodding along, saying to myself, "Very true."

[David R. Larson]

Several of us have commented on the differences between being a Christian and being a Seventh-day Adventist, usually indicating that the first is prior in some way to the second. In many ways this makes sense.

Yet I doubt that it is possible to separate these chronologically or experientially. When anyone becomes a Christian he or she necessarily becomes one of some sort. No one gets to become a Christian as such.

When we become Christians we do so either as SDAs, Roman Catholics, Baptists, Methodists.......or some mix of these. Many might deny this but this is usually because they are unaware of the pedigrees of the type of Christianity they embrace.

There are no birds as such, only particular kinds of birds. There are no horses as such, only particular kinds of horses. There are no flowers as such, only particular kinds of flowers. True, these all may have mixed pedigress; however, none of them is wholly without a pedigree.

We might call this the principle of particularity. Nothing exists unless it exists in some specific way.

This is why I am not ashamed that I am a Seventh-day Adventist Christian. At least I know my pedigree!

[Alexander]

Here, here, David. I like your articulation of Adventist identity.

Monique, I also want to thank you for your thoughtful response.

As I've thought about why the "I love Jesus!" proclamation troubles me, it seems that it serves more as a code phrase or an identity marker than as a theological concept, e.g., "I love the Yeah Yeah Yeahs, or I just love Wes Anderson films."

In the video above it works as a common denominator, a way that people, despite difference, can signal solidarity.

As the context of the 14th chapter of John shows, love means following the commanding example of Christ and doing even greater works.

That seems pretty radical.

[Dr. Thomas J. Zwemer]

Radical in the sense of St. Francis of Assisi or radical in the sense of the Apostle Paul? Tom

[Pat Travis]

David,
Is it possible that those that identify themselves first as a Christian might have a reason?

A "Christian" might be one who embraces the "essentials- common points" of many different denominations...perhaps accepting Christ at a Billy Graham Evangelistic series without accepting the "distinctives" of any one group.

Normally, our Pastors are encouraged not to baptize without acceptance of the 28...and I often hear they are baptized into the SDA church.(instead of Christ) Perhaps there are Adventist that accept only 24 of 28. Are they not truly Adventist? Would they yet be Christian?

I have used this classification before...I am first a Christian then a Protestant who happens to fellowship with SDA's.

I think that may be positive in pointing out the core point of being a Christian is being in Christ.

I also see your point but can appreciate those who make that distinction.

pt

[Alexander]

In fact, adherence to all 28 is not a test of fellowship nor a requirement for baptism.

On a practical level baptism functions as a symbol of acceptance/membership into a local Adventist community.

And what does "being in Christ" mean?

Radical in the sense of the tradition of Francis and Paul reinterpreted for today.

[Pat Travis]

Alex,
Unless things have changed, and I am not in the loop anymore but 15+ years ago one was not baptized in Ga. Cumberland unless one "assented" to the 27.(Now pastors may have fudged) You were very "stongly" discouraged from just baptizing one as a Christian apart from being baptized into the SDA church.

"Being in Christ" is accepting Christ as Savior and Lord of your life.

Eph.1:5-14
"He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us 'in the Beloved.'
7 'In Him' we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace, 8 which He lavished upon us. In all wisdom and insight 9 He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed 'in Him' 10 with a view to an administration suitable to the fulness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things upon the earth. 'In Him' also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will, 12 to the end that we who were the first to hope in Christ should be to the praise of His glory. 13 'In Him', you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—'having also believed', you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory."

pt

[David R. Larson]

Thanks Pat!

This is an interesting topic for psychology of religion!

Logically, if not even chronologically, it seems that there is a linear movement in your view from being a Christian to Protestant to SDA whereas I usually think that they happen all at once.

But I gather there are those who were SDAS first and then Protestants and then Christians. For them this has been a long sequentially linear process of unlearning and relearning.

Fascinating!

Dave

[Pat Travis]

Dave,

Were there SDA's BEFORE Chistians in Christ's and Pauls day? Fascinating thought...It must have been linear.

pt

[Pat Travis]

PS.
I was a Christian and a Protestant before becoming an SDA. I accepted Christ while watching a Billy Graham Crusade when I was 11.

Some SDA's, Baptist,Methodist, may not be Protestants or Christians...possible?
Ws an "Israelite" one because of the Flesh or the "Spirit."

Regards,

pt

[Dick Larsen]

I am not so sure David's metaphor using animals is without fault when transposing it unto God, religion and spirituality. There is no set natural law of "How we become who we are in God". A crow is certainly hatched a crow which would certainly be identified in a type of bird and so on through the general classification of birds and then animals. Our spirituality follows no such path.

[Monique]

This discussion is getting really interesting. Theologically I would argue that we are all "the people of God" or "the body of Christ."
How individuals come to this sense of their identity is takes different routes. Personally I was born into an SDA family, I became a Christian in my 20's and at the same time became a lot more open to the whole human family who I believe God embraces. At this point the "ism" of my "Adventism" became problematic to me and I still wrestle with this problem and I have issues which are fundamentally unsettled. I am no longer the Adventist I used to be, and I do not know how not to be an Adventist. A friend of mine put it best. He called himself a "recovering Adventist." I think that description fits me best in two senses: I am trying to recover from being an Adventist, and I am trying to recover my Adventism!

[Pat Travis]

Monique,

Could you flesh out a little more what you mean,
"This discussion is getting really interesting. Theologically I would argue that we are all "the people of God" or "the body of Christ."

How do you see accepting Christ as one's personal savior fitting into this and denominationalism ?

pt

[Monique]

I suppose "accepting Christ as one's personal savior" is one of those statements I struggle to understand. I don't know how to translate it into practice. The closest I can come to making this concept meaningful is to say that at the moment that I glimpse the reality of Jesus' identity as "the One who saves," this reality becomes personally meaningful to me and radically alters my identity. I no longer experience myself as an isolated individual but as an adopted member of the family of God.

Now I am being totally unhelpful. Please bear with me while I try to figure this out :) !

[Pat Travis]

Hi Monique,

You said, "At the moment that I glimpse the reality of Jesus' identity as "the One who saves," this reality becomes personally meaningful to me and radically alters my identity. I no longer experience myself as an isolated individual but as an adopted member of the family of God."

Sounds good if you Believe/trust that "reality". It is a historical fact that He died...but we are called to believe it as Salvific for us.

John 1:11- "He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13 who were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."

So now, how would "saved" individuals relate to Christian Denominations...are Denominations saved? Or, are their "saved and being saved" individuals in them?

You previously said,"So I end up saying answering I am a Christian who happens to be an SDA. I believe that there is only the "One Holy Universal Church" of which the SDA church is a fragment."

change that last portion to "of which some SDA MEMBERS are but a fragment... and then I think you are absolutely correct!

Denominations can offer a visible framework for the "invisible universal church" to grow in. Some "distinctives" may be useful and others harmful in the "maturing of the saints."

pt

[Monique]

I am getting closer to understanding you. Believing in Jesus makes more sense to me than "accepting Jesus as my personal savior." To me the important question is "Who is Jesus Christ?" Jesus is the savior of humanity whether I accept it or not. I, am however, required to believe this. Believing it does not make it more true, but it does make all the difference to my experience. I don't think the Bible teaches that Jesus is "my personal savior," although I am included in God's salvation as a member of the human family.

I do not think I want to change my statement to "some SDA MEMBERS are but a fragment."

This text is very meaningful to me: "1Ti 4:10 For to this end we labor and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Saviour of all men (humanity), especially of them that believe."

[Monique]

Pat, I think it should be apparent that I am disagreeing with the individualism in some of your statements.

No, I don't believe that denominations are saved, nor do I find the concept of "saved individuals" particularly helpful.

I think that without Christ humanity is lost, hopeless, eternally condemned. Because of Christ humanity is saved.

[David Hamstra]

There's a 'heresy' called 'ecclesialogical docetism': The belief the Body of Christ only _appears_ to be physical. In other words, it's the belief that we can separate individual believers from the church structures that support them and that the structures are really not that important.

[Monique]

Exactly.

I cannot be a Christian without belonging to a particular, local community. The challenge is to belong to that community without succumbing to denominationalism.

[Pat Travis]

Good morning David,

I never implied that.

Monique,
I believe we are to belong to a local community of believers with church structure which preaches the gospel, administers the sacraments, and administers discipline.

On a previous point...the devils "believe in Christ" but I dare say they don't trust in Him as their Savior for forgiveness of sins...or as their Lord so that they do not "practice sinning."

As to "especially believers." The Greek word is also translated "that is" so as to have continuity with the previous developed thought.
"Savior of all men,that is believers."

God is a savior to all humanity in His common grace. He does make the rain fall on the just and unjust.

pt

[Monique]

I am by no means a Greek scholar but this is what I find in Strong's Concordance regarding the word you refer to that is translated "especially" in every translation I consulted:

G3122
μάλιστα
malista
mal'-is-tah
Neuter plural of the superlative of an apparently primary adverb μάλα mala (very); (adverb) most (in the greatest degree) or particularly: - chiefly, most of all, (e-) specially.

[Dr. Thomas J. Zwemer]

As David pointed out in a parallel thread: "There are Calvinists and then there are Calvinists--truer words were never spoken. Back in the days of QOD one of the contributors when asked about some of the beliefs and practices of SDA's responded about the "lunatic Fringe" Therefore I believe that Christianity precedes denominationalism. Therefore: I am Tom Zwemer, son of John and Ruth Zwemer and an adopted son of God. I worship in several church communities where I find pastors who have not only accepted Jesus Christ as their personal Savior but preach Jesus Christ and Him crucified. West Coast Seventh-day Adventism comes very close. The deep South--Hard Shell all the way. Tom

[Pat Travis]

Hi Monique,

Skeat argues for that alternate translation here. However, God is the savior of all mankind as I stated if the correct usage is "especially."

Even if this text becomes problematic to one, what do the overwhelming majority of texts say as regards to salvation, mankinds response and eternal life?

It is necessary for individuals to repent,accept,and believe. There is not "universal salvation" without individual acceptance..."whosoever believing" Jn.3:16.Acts13:39,48.etc.

regards,

pt

[Pat Travis]

Tom,

Same view here!

pt

[Dr. Thomas J. Zwemer]

Earlier I wrote about hard shell Southern SDA’s. By hard shell I mean those who would both affirm and compel the Ten Commandments yet live as they please in private!

My conflict began early in my move from Loma Linda to Augusta. I was elected Chairman of the Board of the Church School. It was in the midst of the Vietnam War. Fort Gordon was 5 miles to the West of Augusta. A black SDA physician was posted to the base hospital at Fort Gordon. He had a daughter about to enter the first grade. He applied to the Augusta SDA Church School. The Board was to approve all admissions. I supported her entry, a significant number of the Board apposed. Their final argument was: “They didn’t want any white boys marrying black girls.” I responded that Southern Missionary College was admitting Black young men and young women at a legal age of independent choice in marriage. I continued, if any one could cite a first grade wedding of any combination, I would vote to deny admission, if not, I fully supported her acceptance. The vote passed by a narrow margin. Following the session, I was threatened with a bloody nose and a bomb big enough to blow out half of my house.

I was later appointed a member of the Board of Trustees of Southern Missionary College. Prior to the Board action on the tense situation at Southern there was a called Constituency Meeting of the Southern Union.
A committee was formed to recommend action at Southern. I was appointed a member of that committee. This time, my views were in the minority, big time! The Committee report was worded to support the President of the Southern Union in taking bold corrective action at Southern.

At the plenary session, there was a call for discussion of the Committee Report. I asked for the floor which, of course, was granted.

I told the store of the newly hired Personnel Director of a cotton mill who announced that he was going to have 100% enrollment in United Way. One senior member of the work crew prided himself on never having contributed to United Way. All of the workers signed up for United Way except the one hold out. The Personnel Director called the recalcitrant worker into the private office of the Director. The worker was offered a seat in front of the desk. The Director slid two pieces of paper in front of the worker. The Director said, “One is a pledge to contribute to the United Way, the other is your resignation. You may sign either.

The worker signed and left. Of course, his team mates wanted to know if he had signed up for United Way, the worker replied: “Yes!” They then asked:
“How Come?” He replied: “Nobody had every explained United Way the way the Personnel Director did.”

I closed by saying: “Nobody every explained E.G. White’s view on the Investigative Judgment as this Committee did!”

Even Neal Wilson had to smile.

The rest is history.

I was assigned to a quiet corner at the Local SDA church: a very uncomfortable place for a man with a passion for the Gospel and fair play. Tom

[Braden]

As has been mentioned many times throughout this discussion it is Christianity that lies at the heart of my faith and belief structure - and I would hope that most Adventists would argue the same way.

My denominational preference then lies with the Adventist Church as I have found it to have the strongest (in general at least) practices, theologies and community that fosters and inspires my relationship with Jesus Christ. Is not this the role of the Church? It's not about definition or control, but about support.

Could it be that these people responded 'Because I love Jesus' because they found Adventism a motivating and supporting community in which to develop this love relationship?

[Pat Travis]

Tom,

Blessings to you!

pt

[Monte Sahlin]

I am an Adventist because Adventist faith includes strands of all that went before in Christianity; there are Catholic, Baptist, Methodist, etc., elements within the 28 fundamental teachings. The Millerite movement and the early Adventist pioneers were a truly ecumenical lot.

More than that, I am an Adventist because Adventist heritage includes clear stands on social justice and ethics as well as a progressive, forward-looking theological stance. (You cannot really, seriously look forward to the Advent and be a traditionalist.) There are Adventist roots that go back before the Fundamentalists hijacked the movement in 1922 and those roots are the compelling elements in our faith.

[Alexander]

Monte,

Thanks for noting the interweaving of past Christian traditions into Adventism. While some regard this with supersessionist glee, I love our pastiche of faith -- we are a postmodern remix of Christianity -- because this positions us to make increasingly self-aware contributions to the ethical issues of the day.

[Colin MacLaurin]

I am an Adventist because I first met Jesus through an Adventist. I did not meet Jesus so clearly in my nominal/liberal Anglican Christian upbringing. The "choice and chance" used by others above applies well to me also. Adventists are the only major semi-mainstream Christian church I know of which rejects eternal hell; the alternative being my favourite Adventist distinctive of all.

[Colin MacLaurin]

Did I also mention "I'm an Adventist" because I discovered that many of our theologians reject my least favourite Adventist belief: remnancy? I note proudly that the 28 Fundamentals do not explicitly make any SDA = remnant identification, and also the alternate baptismal vow omits the topic altogether! (In Northern New South Wales conference, I've hardly ever seen the "28" or any vows read out at baptisms anyway, apart from accepting Christ and joining a church community).