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26 June 2007

Comments

Chris Blake

Ron, thank you for this probing piece. Your exegesis of Romans 13 is particularly enlightening and helpful.

Zane

Amen...This is a cogent, lucid exposition of "kingdom" theology. As Adventists, our read of the gospels has tended to ignore the present aspects of Jesus' kingdom proclamation/teaching, misreading it as it were only talking about the future end of the world.

Ryan Bell

Amazing! Thank you, Ron. This is a gift. I'm sure when this is published in the journal, folks will see that the bibliography and/or footnotes comprise a year or more worth of essential reading. Thanks for distilling your work with these issues.

But I have a question.... When it comes down to real Christians coming to terms with the meaning of 'witness' in real communities around the world, what is the role of the cross? Another way to ask this, maybe, is this: what you have written here is a powerful, political Christology. What kind of soteriology issues from this Christology. I have ideas about this myself, but I'm painfully curious what you would say about this. Wish I was traveling with you; we could discuss it as we bounced along on the bus.

Buffy Turner

Excellent unpacking and exposition of the "sapiential" beside the "apocalyptic eschatology," Ron. Thanks.

Arlyn

This article felt like a gourmet meal- satisfying and deep!

Ron, you wrote "Among God’s people, there was to be a systematic leveling of wealth on a regular basis and dismantling of what we would today describe as oppressive financial and banking institutions designed to maximize profits for creditors."

I am not sure the first part of this sentence rests fully on the second. Cancellation of debts and return of inherited land doesn't level wealth. The rich still get to keep accumulated movable assets, the poor get a breather and a second chance to be industrious (work the land or invest it again) Isn't it closer to declaring bankruptcy (getting creditors off one's back) and giving them some capital/skills to restart a life?

leveling wealth is a treasured social goal of some, but I'm not sure the Bible actually is advocating this.

Arlyn

"By absorbing undeserved suffering and not retaliating in kind, the disciple destroys the evil inherent in the logic of force."

Absorbs and destroys the evil? Holocaust, genocide, massacre, martyrdom.

Evil and force illogically march on.

Joselito Coo

"Jesus is the only person who is described (in the book of Hebrews) as a priest for the church; but he is the final priest who makes all priesthood obsolete—not merely the performance of ritual sacrifice, but the office, pomp and circumstance of priestly authority and hierarchy itself."

Just thinking about the ecclesiological implication and application of this to Adventist polity: one that has been and is still patterned after the US federal system consisting of a hierarchy of overseas divisions/unions and a North American central administration.

Anthony

This was a very enlightening article and has some very powerful implications for the way we view our lives and especially the way in which we view our country--the world's lone superpower. Sadly, it is very difficult to not get discouraged about the efficacy of non-violence. For every Gandhi, there are hundreds of poor Indian women about to be bayonetted by Custer's troops or some other military power. Thus your last paragraph is important, because it is essential that we keep the faith and retain hope that God is a powerful actor in history and has a plan for us all. Unfortunately, this is difficult to do and it is hard not to get too discouraged. Also, I am interested in how this type of outlook plays into the traditional Adventist understanding of the Great Controversey. Should we expect defeat after defeat with the anti-Christ being the most powerful incarnation of exactly what Jesus isn't? Then finally with the Second Coming we are liberated from all these trials. This is a very difficult plight to imagine and almost makes it seem like each of us who truly try to follow in Christ's footsteps with radical generosity and the same type of anarchic outlook will suffer some similar type of fate--until the Second Coming.

Arlyn

Once again, the Jubilee concept is invoked in rosier tones than realistically. wake up. Any banker or lender with sense of the future would schedule a loan to come fully due on the year before Jubilee to minimize their loss. The year before the Jubilee would be harder for the poor to obtain credit. The year before the fiftieth would be stagnant for real estate sales. Then the year after these two events would be the busiest in exchange of lands and money. And I wouldn't be surprised if the negotiations for the exchanges were started before or during Jubilee to ensure future predictability of potential gain. Every economic incentive has secondary and tertiary effects. Especially regularily scheduled ones.

Is that being human and shrewd? yes. Is that ethical, is the real question.

Jesus told a parable about the king commending his shrewd/unrighteous manager and stated that (luke 16:8) the sons of this age were more prudent/shrewd in regard to their own kind than sons of the light. Shall we be less shrewd or more? This is a question for the pragmatic realist- how?

Bob Rigsby

Well, might as well add my voice to the chorus of praise for this essay; though I'd like to note a few particulars.

It is an easy trap to fall into to divide the world into oppressors and the oppressed. Victims and victimizers. This quickly gets translated into the rich/powerful being the cause of all suffering and strife leaving the poor and oppressed with no challenges but to teach and overthrow (even non violently) and shame those they view as their oppressors. If so viewed, they risk being immune from the inner transformations that Christ seems to demand from all.

"Don't participate in your OWN oppression" is often missed by those who see themselves AS oppressed. I realize it's fashionable to blame society and culture for ones own ills, and there is of course some validity to that. However, the choices and personal responsibility one exercises do in fact contribute to ones own condition. A good example (not mentioned here) might be the potential of "a systematic leveling of wealth" to create very irresponsible behaviors. If my credit card debt gets wiped out automatically every 7 years, might that not encourage profligate spending? Are we somehow immune from cause and effect in Christ's Kingdom? A shrewd, frugal saver ends up subsidizing those who have no such discipline in this scenario it seems to me. Is the lender always the oppressor and the lendee always the oppressed? I think not... Interestingly, in the Romans 13 section Ron mentions (13:8) "that believers should owe no one anything except love" which seems to make the same point I think.

So the gospel message to Christians is partly to act responsibly no matter WHERE you find yourself on the spectrum of life. Christian poor would not be active participants in creating their own state while Christian rich would not be active participants in needless accumulation. The poor need to be "good stewards" too don't forget.

Next, I'm just not sure about the NRA membership icon. Obviously an inside joke or something? Is this sarcasm, (I'm guessing not many on this site are members; I am) or somehow implying that the NRA endorses violence? Oh well...

Also the likening of Roman occupation with modern day Iraq simply weakens your point to make such a spurious analogy. Sure doesn't "work" for me.

While I do like the notion of the believer confounding and shaming the aggressor by his passive resistance, thereby creating an opportunity for the hostile person to be reconciled with God, there remains the strong possibility that, should this tactic be used in the struggle with radical Islamists, one has just committed suicide. I'm not certain that's what Christ was suggesting. At the same time, I'm also not sure at all that we HAVE come close to exhausting passive resistance alternatives as a country. Countries with really big guns and bombs seem far less likely to do this it seems. This seems almost explicitly an option for the weak -- which we as a nation are not. So this seems, necessarily, at it's core a very personal decision.

Elaine

Whether we are following Rome's imperialism, it has has been an example mentioned frequently throughout this country's history. We have certainly played as an imperialist power for more than a century. When was the last war on American soil fought against an invasion by another country? Haven't all the wars (excluding WW II) in which this country has engaged been on another country's soil and not to ensure our freedom but another country's freedom? Will we ever run out of similar situations to defend? Has American become both this world's police and freedom fighters? Have we not attempted to impose our brand of government on others by defining boundaries and attempting to influence their governmental decisions?

The U.S. has a most unique history in its settlement and designing of government. We also had to kill and destroy the native population in order to do so. Our hands are bloody and we cannot claim moral authority at all, if ever we were able to do so.

The Romans were able to spread their territory so remarkably because they allowed local control, so long as they received taxes and even fought their own battles; it would have been impossible for Rome to achieve their spread without turning over much of the control to local native populations. They also built roads and the ease of transportation allowed much easier marketing and trade. Whereas in Iraq, there is no history of national unity: in fact it is a "state" structured following WW I disregarding local tribal allegiances and has been a total failure. Saddam was only able to attain unity by murder and savagery. But what is occuring thre today if not the same? Has anyone calculated the number of civilian deaths since March 2003 with a similar number of years under Saddam? Is that a fair comparison? The civilians have paid the heaviest price and are still paying it today. The U.S. has not bettered their situation at all. And what is the possibility that it will be improved in the next few months?

No, I'm not an isolationist; but neither am I an imperialist. The threat during the Cold War had all of us living somewhat in a state of fear, but it dissolved when the economic stability was almost destroyed in the feverish struggle to maintain more military might than Russia. Look where we are now. How successful have all our warring endeavors been in the long run?

Arlyn

Elaine,
Using hard nosed economic pressures as an instrument of nonviolent influence is the best suggestion that I can fully agree with.

i.e. it did create a huge deficit for us when used against the USSR, but our economy confounds the experts and is still running well. It would have worked against Iraq but the food for oil program to shield the vulnerable worked right into Saddams' hands to keep him in power-thanks to France and Russia. It isn't enough to stop Darfur when China and Russia props up the Sudan (80%) and we are insignificant. It did get N.Korea's attention to put their bank under investigation- that set off the chain reaction of other banks voluntarily freezing their assets and now NK are not in the position to extort money from us to stop their nuclear program, but seem more compliant. So, in as far as possible- money still talks. (probably louder than protests, certainly more humane than guns)

Bob,
Thanks for seeing the practical implications of the Jubilee/Fiftieth year. I doubt anyone who understands economics would want that concept re-instated in our time once they thought it through. Which leaves me the question (since I optimistically think that God still had a reason- being the ultimate economist- to recommend the scheme) what realistic good was He trying to bring about despite the natural human reactions to such a plan?

It could be: 1. to limit the debt load to a 7 year reasonable (based on assets and income)amount for all. both in obtaining and what's offered as loans
2. to give everyone one second chance (55th year comes once in a lifetime) to have a break from bad choices that lead to extreme poverty. once.

Finally, great point about victimization as a virtuous stance. It isn't virtuous, just a tragedy. And focusing on what one can do for oneself is more virtuous than focusing on what one can do to shame/change the other.

Arlyn

About wealth leveling:

The rich will get richer- they are utilizing their abilities in a maximizing way and the spiral will naturally accelerate with better tools-internet. The servant with ten talents made twenty and then was rewarded ANOTHER bonus by his master. The middle class will also get what they worked for- 5+5=10. The lower class if diligent- will move into the middle, if not/or unable- will lose what little they have. So why is everyone surprised at the widening gap? Didn't the parable make that process clear?

The answer to the poor is to give opportunity to all, but if as in America most of the poor are emotionally and mentally unstable, disabled or on drugs, or choose to retain characterological traits that make them less employable- opportunity will not raise them. (This impression comes from serving the underserved for most of my career) Humane care and nurture is what's our christian duty then- not trying to make others what they are not. No matter how well intentioned we may be to dream our dreams for them.

So the widening gap of wealth? It's been happening since the start of creation. Addressing abuses of the system- by all means do! But to eradicate this spectrum reflecting human endeavor? Would it be just to keep everyone's education at the same level? Or to promote those who can't read? Access yes, redistribution, no. Should Ph.D programs be required to give away 40% of their resources to pre-school programs- thereby making the doctorate program even more (150%)expensive for applicants and less accessible due to this artificial government restraint? This is certainly a country's perogative, but, is it fair? And does it in the end help the country as a whole?

Ed Guzman

Ron,

I loved this post. You excellently developed the "here now" and "not yet" aspect of the kingdom. (Allen would be stunned)
It is thorough and one of the most ambitiously comprehensive essays I have every read. It's like a book prospectus.

I have a bit of a problem with those whole notion of separating the military action from being a living citizen of the United States.

Shouldn't we face the facts that we are fully complicit in military actions. The military industrial complex is not some random hi-tech killing posse that exists ex-nihilo. They are the physical manifestation of interests and policies already in place.
Even if you abstain from paying tax dollars, every living breathing citizen's name is written on the bullets and cluster bombs that kill abroad.

This is the turn. To counter the evils of imperialistic reality we need peaceful, but loud and radical opposition to not this action alone, but to the think, policies, economic and political interests that are symbiotic with our wealth as a nation and foundational to the evils of hostile action. Hostile action that sometimes finds it last recourse in bombs and bullets. Hostile action that finds its genesis in our comfort. But make no mistake, "the pen is mightier than the sword." Our hostile subversive action is as deadly and farther reaching then bombs.

Take for example the "coup de grace" delivered by US envoy to the Yemen representative on the UN security council after a no vote on a US resolution to enter Iraq: "No sooner had the Yemeni ambassador put down his hand after voting against the resolution, the U.S. ambassador was at his side saying “that will be the most expensive ‘no’ vote you ever cast.” Days later US 70 million dollar food aid package to Yemen was cut off."

Now if anything is harsh, anti-humankind, subversive, coercive or just plain evil, I think the aforementioned is a perfect example. The bombs and the bullets are for those that aren't willing to "play" with the same pieces.

My point is that the problem is systemic. Isolating the military as a anti-normative venue for Adventist chaplaincy on the grounds mentioned seem a little shortsighted, and assenting to a dualistic notion of American life. It's as if living in the US is potentially innocuous to the world stage, but the military is evil incarnate.
I think we all drink the water. And not just drink from it, but the "oppressive military action" is its natural corollary.

As for the chaplaincy positions, I think that is a private issue. There is no doubt that they ask you to edit out the troubling imperatives of the gospel. But the dynamic struggle of a bringer of the euangelion is perennial since the great commission; keeping on message, straddling the enticement of personalizing the gospel or crafting it to one's own or another's image(see: gnostic syncretism, Judaizers). Maybe despite the focus on the narrow parameters for ministering, military chaplaincy is a greater place to serve for precisely those reasons.

Ed Guzman

From whose perspective are we weighing the justice of this war?
Shiite, Sunni, or Kurd?

I absolutely have visceral disgust for the way the administration manipulated public trust and campaigned for entering into Iraq. The lies to get us to sign off on deposing a despot-that we used to stablize the region in the 80's-are convoluted and evil.

But lets do a perspectival shift. Once the military hit the ground and took control (arguable) of Iraq, the Kurds that had been persecuted as a people, tortured, and killed by various means including chemical weapons, were liberated.

Implicit in the phrase "just war" is the assumption that we have weighed all perspectives and have come to an objective understanding about the value behind this war.

I think this war is a mess because its inertia is found in a lie, because we fumbled it incredibly hard, and because innocent people are getting killed by military personnel that weren't properly educated past a fortress mentality about the diversity of the people and their customs in Iraq.

If we are using the current war as a model, the idea of determining the justice of this war seems a little "ini mini miny moe" to me.

Dr. Thomas J. Zwemer

Johnny

Please give us a citation that assures us that an ordained minister/priest of any denomination is allowed to fully proclaim Jesus' teachings and example in their own pulpit without fear of reprisals for "heterodoxy".

Tom

Ed Guzman

I don't know if Johnny was arguing for that position, but your point is a very strong point as the discussion in the blogger potluck salon is moving in that direction.

Permit me to quote you.

Ed G

Dr. Thomas J. Zwemer

Johnny

My point is simply that we are all contrained in some fashion or dimension. I don't think that one should judge another's accomodations. It is certainly proper to say: No thank you, not under these circumstances--I know not what course others might take but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord, as we understand He would have us serve. I am personally glad, the U.S. see fit to recruit Chaplains. I personally wish that we where not so preemptive and aggressive in our world view. Thank God we live in a country that protects freedom of speech. Tom

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